advice please: propane vs diesel generator
 

I'm trying to purchase a backup generator that'd provide a few necessities when
the power goes out.

I'm not looking to fill full power needs when there's an outage.
Rather, I'd like something that I can use to provide a couple hours of use per day
here and there during an extended outage.

What's the tradeoff between propane and diesel/gasoline generators?

Re: advice please: propane vs diesel generator
 

Propane doesn't go stale/bad.

Dual use if you currently heat with it.

Re: advice please: propane vs diesel generator
 

Diesel has a much higher BTU density than propane.

When Ike hit, all the cell towers in the area went offline because there was no propane availability. Most of the cell towers where I live have been switched over to diesel.

Diesel can store almost indefinitely if you store it in tightly sealed containers away from sunlight and temperature variations. I store mine in 55 gal drums.

That being said, victor is right that propane NEVER goes bad. I am just unsure as its availability when the need arises. I have a list of all the diesel storage areas around me, including gas stations, bus tif TS truly HTF.

I know if I can find it, I can find a way to get it home. Propane, not so much, you are pretty much stuck with whatever container you find it in. Container too big, you cant get it home.

Re: advice please: propane vs diesel generator
 

<table style="width: 831px; height: 124px;" border="1"><tbody><tr valign="top"><td>Motor Gasoline</td> <td>1 gallon = 124,238 Btu</td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td>Diesel Fuel</td> <td>1 gallon = 138,690 Btu</td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td>Heating Oil</td> <td>1 gallon = 138,690 Btu</td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td>Propane</td> <td>1 gallon = 91,333 Btu </td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td>Wood</td> <td>1 cord = 20,000,000 Btu

http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/energyexpla...page=about_btu
</td></tr></tbody></table>

Re: advice please: propane vs diesel generator
 

Price wise, around where I live, Propane is 2.70 a gallon delivered. Diesel is 2.50 a gallon you pick it up.

When you factor in the BTU difference, the diesel imho is the better deal for power generation.

Re: advice please: propane vs diesel generator
 

Although better, diesel engines are expensive. If you just need intermittant urban backup get a high speed (3600 RPM) gasoline generator. When you finally move to your off grid location get a diesel.

Re: advice please: propane vs diesel generator
 

i would go with the propane because i would assume it would also be able to run from methane/natural gas with some light modification

Re: advice please: propane vs diesel generator
 

I have a crazy question that has been bugging me a bit as of late

You cant use a firewood in the house without a way for the carbon monoxide to escape.

How come we can cook with gas with no such problems???

I am just having a massive brainfart right now and cant make the connection.


Thanks.

T

Re: advice please: propane vs diesel generator
 

It's not what the OP is looking for, but as a point of interest - Out on the flats, those who are to far out to get access to powerlines use propane for everything- lighting, heat, cooking, refrigeration. Electricity gets little use except for running an electric water pump or insignificant gadgets.

Taking this approach, your electrical needs can be met with the smallest of generators or even a small solar or wind system. ... and get this, propane tanks rally freeze, break or require replacement. Electricity is a suckers game.

Re: advice please: propane vs diesel generator
 

In a closed system, it can still put you to sleep.

Re: advice please: propane vs diesel generator
 

It's carbon dioxide, not monoxide. And that's not the main problem. The main problem is getting all the smoke outside. Another factor is that cooking uses a lot less fuel than heating. But otherwise you are correct: both consume oxygen and that might be a problem in a small space.

Re: advice please: propane vs diesel generator
 

Any combustion within a closed building is a problem - regardless of fuel source. Under normal combustion there a a few basic byproducts: Heat, Water, CO2.......when you start to deplete the oxygen level (like in a closed environment ...your home...) there is not enough O to go with the C and you make some CO in place of CO2......

Also - if we use a gasoline engine as an example.....if you run them too "rich"...too much fuel for the air.....you again will not have enough O ....and will produce CO in place of some of the CO2.

Just basic chemistry once you think about it.

We need adequate ventilation when burning anything....the make-up air brought in for combustion reduces/prevents the CO production....the CO will kill you....the CO2 is not deadly (within reason).....you can get into trouble by simply not having enough oxygen because you used it all up....this is also when you will get CO.

This is a big problem when folks use kerosene/LP/laterns, etc in closed spaces...like tents, campers, homes, ice fishing shantys, etc....just open the window a bit for the make-up air to enter.

Bottom Line: CO is from combustion without enough Oxygen for the amount of fuel.....too rich = CO = danger.

I have an old truck with all the emmisions bypassed....runs super rich....if I just open the garage door for a minute....my garage CO detector will go off....I use this as a periodic test.

Science class in now closed!

Re: advice please: propane vs diesel generator
 

When I went upState I would see alot of homes with a huge propane tank sitting a bit aways from the house.

I always use to wonder what would happen if they had problems.

Now I see they really dont have to worry about them as much I thought.


T

Re: advice please: propane vs diesel generator
 

On the flats, most guys have 4 or 5 - 25 gallon tanks so that they can easily boat them in and out without using a delivery, which on the flats aint gonna happen without spend a few bucks.

Hands down, the truly remote locations best friend, is a propane lighting/heating/cooking/refrigeration system.

Re: advice please: propane vs diesel generator
 

Re: advice please: propane vs diesel generator
 

Propane can't be beat for cooking, and it is true, it stores forever. We have a 500 gal tank, two 30lb tanks, and two 15lb tanks.

We will use our propane for cooking/emergency heat when the time comes. We will use electricity generator up to fuels that we can easily scrounge.

Solar comes later.....hopefully.

Re: advice please: propane vs diesel generator
 

I guess the first question that needs to be answered in requard to the generator is how much $ do you have to spend...


in my opinion if your spending less than 5K-10k you shouldnt be considering a Diesel


if you have more than 5k+ to spend...then its time to weigh the pros-cons of the fuels

Propane..
very clean
lasts forever in storage
supply is questionable
alternate fuel would possibly be Nat gas or gasoline
marginally shorter life engines
generally less expensive
generally more for light ussage

Diesel
can be dirty
can last forever in storage if treated correctly
regulations on how diesel can be stored in bulk
supply is less questionable than propane
alternate fuels could be veg oil..bio diesel etc
longer life heavyer duty engines
generally more expensive
fuel use per watt produced normally less

I personally use as my first option back up power a automatic propane package unit for my home

but i also have a trailer mounted 100kw diesel unit

and smaller portable inverter units

so i have the best (i think) of all worlds availible to me

Re: advice please: propane vs diesel generator
 

Do you already use propane or natural gas for cooking or heating? If so, that's a no brainer to use propane. Most gas powered generators can be easily modified to run propane or natural gas. I have a 1000 gallon propane tank for (back up) heating and cooking already. It makes sense for me to have a propane fueled generator. Plus I don't have to refuel for a very long time with such a big tank, and propane is a very clean burning fuel that doesn't leave much carbon deposits.

With a diesel, you may have to change oil more often as it turns black from carbon very quickly, plus the exhaust smoke stinks. In a SHTF situation, methane can be made like bio diesel.

For a limited use generator like you envision, going diesel wouldn't make much sense. I don't have anything against diesels, since I have two myself, but for you propane sounds like the better option.

Re: advice please: propane vs diesel generator
 

I went with diesel you can press sunflower seeds and nuts into fuel that will burn in a diesel engine if you have to.

Try to make a alternate fuel for a propane generator if you need to. Woodgas may be your only option.

Re: advice please: propane vs diesel generator
 

Diesel engines are well made, but much more expensive. They also make generators that do both gasoline AND propane. I have one from this vendor.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Triple-Fuel-Hond...item5ad80bceeb

My brother-in-law is a farmer who complains that nowadays the filters in his diesel tractor have to be changed monthly or they get clogged with algae. That after the country went to low-sulfur diesel the algae problem got exponentially worse. I don't know about it, so I went with the gasoline/propane duo deal. Figured that I could always rig up a solar still to make my own ethanol fuel from fermented sweet potatoes or corn if I had to.